Comments on: The Leaving

By: Alive in Limerick

Alive in Limerick — Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:19:10 +0000

I did a terrible Leaving Certificate that still haunts me no matter how many letters I get after my name. My parents were so disappointed but I was determined to take whatever came up on the CAO list.
I went to Tropics with the lads when the results came out, after drinking in the old McDaids (across the road from the new pub – it was tiny with church seats – remember?!) but had to head home early because I had work (for my dad) early next morning.

College exms were so easy in comparison.

By: Tom

Tom — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 05:44:07 +0000

Great article. More than 30 years on I still get the Leaving Cert nightmare occasionally.
At least these days I usually have my clothes on,which is an improvement.
Sometimes I even revert into lucid dreaming mode and realise that I have a Master’s and don’t have to do this crap.
I agree with the least bad bit, though. The teaching profession has too many fruitcakes to give me any faith in teacher’s assessments. Objectivity and rigour are not bad things for teens to have to face, either. (I have one kid starting the LC process in a month, so I amy revisit this.)
Just glad I’m not doing them again.

By: genevieve

genevieve — Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:35:18 +0000

Thanks, that does make me feel better. Although a few headings here and there wouldn’t have killed me at an earlier age either – I used to just jump in at school, then at Uni it was like blood from the proverbial.
Computers are terrific for the polishing though.

By: Dervala

Dervala — Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:32:58 +0000

Genevieve, I wonder how much of it has to do with Computers? I never drafted a thing until I left college and learned how to use PCs. In college I did at least make notes on index cards; at school, not even that. But now I edit endlessly.

My writing is better for the drafting, but I’ve lost something that came from the highwire act of a single draft. I can’t stand the Bukowski bollocks that only unrefined art is authentic, but there was a certain skill—more like speechmaking—in trying to get it right the first time. More thinking in advance, maybe.

By: genevieve

genevieve — Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:29:22 +0000

Hello, finally got back to this thread – yes, Dervala, we had heaps and heaps of ‘em, all in 3-hour exams, four essays apiece usually, and 100%assessment on the day (practice runs only during the year). If you did humanities, that is.

Perhaps I’m a bit hard on my HSC (Higher School Certificate) system, the arrangement that came into being about four years later on involved sustained assessment and opportunities for more developed study projects which were considered fairly innovative in their day. And my kids are more structured writers than I was at their age, I think, because there is much insistence throughout high school now on putting in drafts for work which is later polished up. (I did have some awful English teachers in middle high school come to think of it.)

I guess I was one of those lazy young things who got by on skill and showy stuff, and neglected to use the opportunity (which was there) to put in lots of practice essays. The shock I experienced in first year English Lit would have been lessened considerably by some self-imposed exposure to the time-honoured practice of drafting.

By: Dervala

Dervala — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:35:04 +0000

Hi Jessica,

Good luck on your trip! I wish I were more expert on places to go, but it’s been fifteen years since I’ve lived there, and I didn’t travel as much as I should have. I did a whirlwind car trip a year and a half ago and it reminded me how geographically miniscule the place is—West Cork, Kerry, Clare, Galway, Mayo, Sligo—they are all within a few hours of each other. So you can’t go wrong.

I’d suggest you check out my friend John’s blog, Monasette. He drives around Ireland constantly and takes wonderful pictures. I think you’ll find a lot of trip inspiration there.

http://www.monasette.com/blog/

By: Jessica

Jessica — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 06:43:38 +0000

Dervala –

I leave for Ireland late July. Will be staying one day/night in Dublin and then traveling along the Southeastern/wesstern border. Any sites that are must see’s?

Thanks for your time.

By: Dervala

Dervala — Sun, 26 Jun 2005 08:53:21 +0000

Just that week matters, Leif, except for a couple of subjects like art and woodwork. Most schools have exams at Christmas and a full set of trial “pre-Leaving” exams in March. Believe me, the kids work hard all year long. They choose this system so that a small country gets tested in a standardized way. I’m interested—how does Norway make sure it’s fair when teachers grade their own students?

(Richard Gabriel, in his introduction to the book “A Pattern Language”, has a horrific story of the teacher in his small town who made sure that Harvard cancelled Gabriel’s scholarship, out of spite. That couldn’t happen in Ireland, thank goodness—because it would, given a chance.)

Genevieve, did Australia rely on essays to test? I’m fairly grateful that the Leaving did, because you couldn’t rely on recognizing a correct answer—you had to structure one. That helped a lot later.

By: Leif H

Leif H — Sun, 26 Jun 2005 05:34:43 +0000

Interesting to read about “the leaving”, dont you get graded while studying? Is it just this week that matters? We have some central exams, but of our 15 (!) subjects over 3 years in upper secondary school, only 5-6 of them are assessed/graded through central exams. I don’t know what is the best. I would certainly like my students work hard all the year, not just the weeks before a big exam.
Friendly greetings from Leif in Norway

By: genevieve

genevieve — Sun, 26 Jun 2005 01:03:44 +0000

Like your Indian correspondent (we’re coming from the round earth’s imagined corners here), there was a very similar rigid system in place in Australia until the mid-80s – too late for me alas.
The damage this kind of study does to learning can be undone, but it takes a lot of time, the biggest problem for me is that I did not learn how to learn, that is how to THINK.

Thanks to Strewelpeter for the Thomas poem, one I’m unfamiliar with. The only useful thing about rigid instruction is that it does assist people to learn poetry off… all they have to do in our country now is make poetry and Shakespeare compulsory and we’ll be laughing.