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	<title>Comments on: C.A.L.I.*</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/</link>
	<description>A love letter</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Arianne</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-37325</link>
		<dc:creator>Arianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-37325</guid>
		<description>My father once told me "You shouldn't want to have kids. You should want kids to have you" which is complemented so well by your "I’m not envious of my friends who have children. I’m envious of the children who have my friends". Great post - I'm on the same page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My father once told me &#8220;You shouldn&#8217;t want to have kids. You should want kids to have you&#8221; which is complemented so well by your &#8220;I’m not envious of my friends who have children. I’m envious of the children who have my friends&#8221;. Great post &#8211; I&#8217;m on the same page.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-23072</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-23072</guid>
		<description>Hi Dervala,

I came across your blog via Penelope Trunk's by accident. 

I felt like this was an entry from my own soul. I am at this exact position in life.  I am 33 and have never wanted kids.  I even told my fiance that if he wants kids from me that I have just a few requirements:

1.  I require one nanny per kid 

2.  I require a 2 week, kid-free vacation to a destination of my choice per year, per kid.

3.  A personal trainer, 3 days a week to get my bum back where it belongs.

So imagine, 2 kids = 2 nannies + 4 weeks vacation anywhere!  Yippee!  Earlier in our relationship, he could not afford that, so it was a great deterrent but now he can.  Damn!

We also live in Norway where the gov't rewards people for having children.  It is a sweet deal! They can receive 35,000 NOK ($5000 USD) just for having the kid if the mother does not have a job, both parents receive maternity leave. It is 6 weeks for the parent that chooses to remain working, AND the stay-at-home parent gets to keep his or her job and pay (though slightly reduced) AND 1 year maternity leave, plus the yearly required paid (3-6 week) vacation.  Wonderful!

That being said, I am the only childless female left in the group.  I am the oddity.  I miss my friends in the same way you have perfectly decribed.  I still see them often though it is not the same now that the babies are around.  Now, it is as if they are distracted by a huge, madly-ringing cell phone, though he is cute as a button! Trying to arrange a coffee date is similar to extracting the troops from Iraq.      

The pressure is on from all sides to join this baby cult, family members (both sides), friends, employers, Norway, even my man is starting to look at me funny.  I look at these new moms lugging around strollers in the snow, worn-out from lack of sleep, hair wild and clothes rumpled from lack of personal time, stressed about finding a sitter just to go to the movies and then they still have to look after their husbands.  Nothing about this seems appealing to me and yet I feel like I am going to sucked into this tornado before too long.

Yes, motherhood is supposed to be this wonderful thing yet while growing up, yet all the moms even my own said, "Don't do it! Hold out as long as possible!"  My 98 year-old great-grandmother had 13 kids and those were her exact words in our final conversation.  Kids like me, I think they are cool, for other people.  I prefer dogs.

So thanks for putting this entry out into the world, it is nice to know I am not alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dervala,</p>
<p>I came across your blog via Penelope Trunk&#8217;s by accident. </p>
<p>I felt like this was an entry from my own soul. I am at this exact position in life.  I am 33 and have never wanted kids.  I even told my fiance that if he wants kids from me that I have just a few requirements:</p>
<p>1.  I require one nanny per kid </p>
<p>2.  I require a 2 week, kid-free vacation to a destination of my choice per year, per kid.</p>
<p>3.  A personal trainer, 3 days a week to get my bum back where it belongs.</p>
<p>So imagine, 2 kids = 2 nannies + 4 weeks vacation anywhere!  Yippee!  Earlier in our relationship, he could not afford that, so it was a great deterrent but now he can.  Damn!</p>
<p>We also live in Norway where the gov&#8217;t rewards people for having children.  It is a sweet deal! They can receive 35,000 <span class="caps">NOK</span> ($5000 <span class="caps">USD</span>) just for having the kid if the mother does not have a job, both parents receive maternity leave. It is 6 weeks for the parent that chooses to remain working, <span class="caps">AND</span> the stay-at-home parent gets to keep his or her job and pay (though slightly reduced) <span class="caps">AND</span> 1 year maternity leave, plus the yearly required paid (3-6 week) vacation.  Wonderful!</p>
<p>That being said, I am the only childless female left in the group.  I am the oddity.  I miss my friends in the same way you have perfectly decribed.  I still see them often though it is not the same now that the babies are around.  Now, it is as if they are distracted by a huge, madly-ringing cell phone, though he is cute as a button! Trying to arrange a coffee date is similar to extracting the troops from Iraq.      </p>
<p>The pressure is on from all sides to join this baby cult, family members (both sides), friends, employers, Norway, even my man is starting to look at me funny.  I look at these new moms lugging around strollers in the snow, worn-out from lack of sleep, hair wild and clothes rumpled from lack of personal time, stressed about finding a sitter just to go to the movies and then they still have to look after their husbands.  Nothing about this seems appealing to me and yet I feel like I am going to sucked into this tornado before too long.</p>
<p>Yes, motherhood is supposed to be this wonderful thing yet while growing up, yet all the moms even my own said, &#8220;Don&#8217;t do it! Hold out as long as possible!&#8221;  My 98 year-old great-grandmother had 13 kids and those were her exact words in our final conversation.  Kids like me, I think they are cool, for other people.  I prefer dogs.</p>
<p>So thanks for putting this entry out into the world, it is nice to know I am not alone.</p>
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		<title>By: finnyknits</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-18439</link>
		<dc:creator>finnyknits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-18439</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this post. My buddy Elkit linked me over here and it's a perspective I'm always seeking - the voice of a childfree woman over 30. 

My husband and I have never wanted kids, but that hasn't stopped our families from asking us repeatedly if we've "changed our minds". 

As though you can go from having zero desire for a life changing event to an all-consuming desire overnight. 

I've never made a blog topic request before, but I'd love to hear more about your experiences and thoughts as a childfree adult.

Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post. My buddy Elkit linked me over here and it&#8217;s a perspective I&#8217;m always seeking &#8211; the voice of a childfree woman over 30. </p>
<p>My husband and I have never wanted kids, but that hasn&#8217;t stopped our families from asking us repeatedly if we&#8217;ve &#8220;changed our minds&#8221;. </p>
<p>As though you can go from having zero desire for a life changing event to an all-consuming desire overnight. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never made a blog topic request before, but I&#8217;d love to hear more about your experiences and thoughts as a childfree adult.</p>
<p>Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Hangar Queen</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-18099</link>
		<dc:creator>Hangar Queen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-18099</guid>
		<description>Looking at it again your Santa has the air of a whacked out East LA Vato about him.

Class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at it again your Santa has the air of a whacked out East LA Vato about him.</p>
<p>Class.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-18033</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-18033</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dervala,

By the way, that Santa picture is priceless. My wife coincidentally uncovered a similar one of my sister and I at Switzers in 1974. Santa had a very dodgy looking cotton wool beard. It was sponsored by Paddy's whiskey of course!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dervala,</p>
<p>By the way, that Santa picture is priceless. My wife coincidentally uncovered a similar one of my sister and I at Switzers in 1974. Santa had a very dodgy looking cotton wool beard. It was sponsored by Paddy&#8217;s whiskey of course!</p>
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		<title>By: dervala</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-17820</link>
		<dc:creator>dervala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-17820</guid>
		<description>Ronan, I totally get your rant (and I do see and hope for the day when the incentives are skewed toward having children, or at least not so strongly skewed against.) 

My piece is really about how it feels to be a woman in my late 30s and constantly facing awkward sympathy, as if having children were the only life that's rewarding. It's not, and nor is deciding not to have children about wanting to keep the party going. (Okay, a bit.)  :-)

Who in the world is going to say that their children are/were not worth it? To me, the equivalent is being able to say that yes, not having children is also a sacrifice--I know that I am missing an extraordinary experience--but that conscious sacrifice is also worth it. 

I once thought that having a family was the be-all and end-all. I'm amazed to find that I no longer do, and not only that, but that I'm fed up with how puny that perspective is. I respect the institution of the family, though I feel a bit sorry for its tattered state these days. And it's nice when parent-types respect us childless women back, rather than assuming we made a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in Barren Lane. 

Nice job ditching on the Tiger early--it looked like a car crash then, and it looks even worse now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronan, I totally get your rant (and I do see and hope for the day when the incentives are skewed toward having children, or at least not so strongly skewed against.) </p>
<p>My piece is really about how it feels to be a woman in my late 30s and constantly facing awkward sympathy, as if having children were the only life that&#8217;s rewarding. It&#8217;s not, and nor is deciding not to have children about wanting to keep the party going. (Okay, a bit.)  :-)</p>
<p>Who in the world is going to say that their children are/were not worth it? To me, the equivalent is being able to say that yes, not having children is also a sacrifice&#8212;I know that I am missing an extraordinary experience&#8212;but that conscious sacrifice is also worth it. </p>
<p>I once thought that having a family was the be-all and end-all. I&#8217;m amazed to find that I no longer do, and not only that, but that I&#8217;m fed up with how puny that perspective is. I respect the institution of the family, though I feel a bit sorry for its tattered state these days. And it&#8217;s nice when parent-types respect us childless women back, rather than assuming we made a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in Barren Lane. </p>
<p>Nice job ditching on the Tiger early&#8212;it looked like a car crash then, and it looks even worse now.</p>
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		<title>By: dervala</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-17818</link>
		<dc:creator>dervala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-17818</guid>
		<description>Such a treat--I was cleaning out my comment spam folder this morning (2000+ messages) and discovered all these extra, recent comments that were wrongly filtered. I'm thrilled to hear from you all, makes it all worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a treat&#8212;I was cleaning out my comment spam folder this morning (2000+ messages) and discovered all these extra, recent comments that were wrongly filtered. I&#8217;m thrilled to hear from you all, makes it all worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-17670</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-17670</guid>
		<description>Yes, its impossibly hard. We have 2 and one more coming. Do I miss life B.C. (Before Children)? We could travel and go out a lot (more than a handful of times a year!). Had friends that we didn't just talk about kids with. 

Sure I enjoyed that time, but there comes a point (for me anyway) when you realize the party's over. I especially liked the point about how precocious kids are now. That's why you need more than one. Otherwise the little emperor (or empress) rules the roost. All in all, they're worth it I think. 

I wonder if the day will come when the government will pay us to have them. Instead of punishing us for having them like it does now. Its better in Canada than Ireland but in America its insane. I think if society actively supported parenting children at home then a lot of the attitudes you talk about would change. That means subsidizing someone to stay home with them while they are small.

We both worked when our first was small and it was a nightmare. This was Celtic Tiger Ireland with the hour and a half commute-- drop the kid in the creche before dawn and see them for a half hour before bed at night. I know that we are very lucky that we can manage with only one of us working now. (Needless to say we said goodbye to the never-ending party of the Celtic Tiger and moved away) Even the terms we use are wrong. The partner minding the children works just as hard as the "real worker". Why should keeping a family strong not be seen as a career. Apologies for the rant but unless you are very lucky at what you work at I can't see much that is more rewarding than having kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, its impossibly hard. We have 2 and one more coming. Do I miss life B.C. (Before Children)? We could travel and go out a lot (more than a handful of times a year!). Had friends that we didn&#8217;t just talk about kids with. </p>
<p>Sure I enjoyed that time, but there comes a point (for me anyway) when you realize the party&#8217;s over. I especially liked the point about how precocious kids are now. That&#8217;s why you need more than one. Otherwise the little emperor (or empress) rules the roost. All in all, they&#8217;re worth it I think. </p>
<p>I wonder if the day will come when the government will pay us to have them. Instead of punishing us for having them like it does now. Its better in Canada than Ireland but in America its insane. I think if society actively supported parenting children at home then a lot of the attitudes you talk about would change. That means subsidizing someone to stay home with them while they are small.</p>
<p>We both worked when our first was small and it was a nightmare. This was Celtic Tiger Ireland with the hour and a half commute&#8212; drop the kid in the creche before dawn and see them for a half hour before bed at night. I know that we are very lucky that we can manage with only one of us working now. (Needless to say we said goodbye to the never-ending party of the Celtic Tiger and moved away) Even the terms we use are wrong. The partner minding the children works just as hard as the &#8220;real worker&#8221;. Why should keeping a family strong not be seen as a career. Apologies for the rant but unless you are very lucky at what you work at I can&#8217;t see much that is more rewarding than having kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Hangar Queen</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-17589</link>
		<dc:creator>Hangar Queen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-17589</guid>
		<description>Lovely stuff.My three are already far too cool for me but occasionally they will deign to include me in their carry-on.Earlier tonight we all ran out and pressed a rake of glass beads into a just poured cement wall.The state had taken a few feet of our yard and gave us a nice wall to partly make up for it.
The sight of a 5,4 and 2 year olds sticking the beads in the wet cement soon drew the attention of some scary looking West Viginia construction dudes.They laughed,produced rubber mallets to embed the beads and joined the kids in decorating the wall.

Incidentally I have a great pic of me with the 1976 Todds' Santa.Madness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely stuff.My three are already far too cool for me but occasionally they will deign to include me in their carry-on.Earlier tonight we all ran out and pressed a rake of glass beads into a just poured cement wall.The state had taken a few feet of our yard and gave us a nice wall to partly make up for it.<br />
The sight of a 5,4 and 2 year olds sticking the beads in the wet cement soon drew the attention of some scary looking West Viginia construction dudes.They laughed,produced rubber mallets to embed the beads and joined the kids in decorating the wall.</p>
<p>Incidentally I have a great pic of me with the 1976 Todds&#8217; Santa.Madness.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Dalton</title>
		<link>http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/comment-page-1/#comment-17567</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Dalton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dervala.net/2008/12/16/cali/#comment-17567</guid>
		<description>I'd have thought that being more interesting comes accidentally to us. If at all.  Being silent is often easier and the rest is just about reaching Isadora; with its square and low wall waiting.

But of course I may be wrong...

Another wonderful piece. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have thought that being more interesting comes accidentally to us. If at all.  Being silent is often easier and the rest is just about reaching Isadora; with its square and low wall waiting.</p>
<p>But of course I may be wrong&#8230;</p>
<p>Another wonderful piece. Thank you.</p>
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